SCIENCE STUDIO: Peer Led Team Learning (PLTL)
"People who can learn in groups can do better than those individually, that is the driving concept behind Peer Led Team Learning (PLTL). This week on Science Studio Dr. Pratibha Varma-Nelson, a world authority in the concept of PLTL, discusses the importance of PLTL and how it functions."
http://pltlis.org/recognition-of-dr-pratibha-varma-nelson/
Audio transcript:
Dr. Keith Pannell: Okay. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to another Science Studio program. My name is Keith Pannell. And today, we're going to be talking about STEM education. That means science, technology, engineering, and math. And what are the things that this society is supposed to be doing to make our citizenship more STEM literate?Well, I'm a STEM person, but, you know, it's not a big goal of mine to think about it every day. So indeed today, we've got Professor Pratibha Varma Nelson. She's the executive director of a STEM Education Innovation and research Institute at the University, which is called Indiana University - Purdue University in Indianapolis. And the title of the University is wonderful. It's a standalone university, but both Purdue and Indiana are, you know, in charge of it. So, it's a great story. I'm sure if you go to Google, you can learn everything about its founding 50 years ago, but we're not going to go into that today. So, Pratibha Finally. Welcome to Science Studio.
Dr. Pratibha Varma-Nelson: Thank you. It's my pleasure.
Keith: Tell us before we get onto your role as the executive director of an institute to do with STEM Education. Where did you come from? How on earth did you become involved in STEM activities as a career and as a goal of creativity?
Pratibha: Well, I grew up in India in Pune and my parents were both Sanskrit scholars. My father was a professional photographer and my mother taught Hindu philosophy. That's the environment I was raised in. My parents and their siblings were all very well educated, but I wasn't surrounded by scientists. That was lucky. It was lucky because I got a lot of the humanities that continue to enrich my life today. But as I grew older, mathematics was something I enjoyed doing and I wasn't very good at it earlier on. Actually, my father passed away when I was ten. And after he passed away, for some reason, I got very serious with my studies, and I scored the highest mark in sixth grade in mathematics.
Keith: In your school?
Pratibha: In my school. That got me interested in mathematics. And then when I was first introduced to chemistry in high school, that was something I really wanted to pursue in college. I went into college and became a chemistry major. Pune college. I went to ardia College, which was a college of University of Pune, and continued to do that and I continued to do well in chemistry, and that then became my passion. I've always said chemistry. Once I understood chemistry, chemistry explained the world to me, especially organic chemistry.
Keith: Oh, that's interesting because I mean, organic chemistry is fine. There's just too much of it. Okay.
Pratibha: And see, I never saw it that way. It explained biochemistry too, you know, and so anyway, I finished my bachelor's degree and then went on to Pune University for a year, which is the graduate campus. And then from there, I got admission to the University of Illinois in Chicago. Actually, only wanted to work with one professor and his name was Clifford Matthews. And he was an excellent teacher, but he also worked in a field that I wanted to work in. And that was the chemical evolution of life. Oh. So, we did prebiotic chemistry. So, I wrote to him, and I got admission in the university and then that's where I went. I went to Chicago. That's interesting. I was 21 years old when I came here with a suitcase and a few dollars in my pocket. And it was hard for my mom to send me here because I was the older child and my father had passed away. The rest of the family thought I should get a job and help her. Mother, who was a feminist before her time before it became fashionable, said that my daughter will study as long as she wants to actually gave the last bit of money, she had to buy one way ticket for me to come to the United States.
Keith: That's also an intellectual statement, right? It's not a two way round trip. Well, you get there, my dear, and you do what you have to do. Then we'll rethink later. Beautiful.
Keith: Tell me about Sanskrit, just very quickly.
Pratibha: Sanskrit, there's a language in which all of our scriptures are written. It's not a language that is being used today.
Keith: Suppose communicate with each corresponding in the West Latin.
Pratibha: Correct.
Keith: It’s an ancient language.
Pratibha: Very much.
Keith: Very few people use it day to day, but scholars know every little feature of it.
Pratibha: And that's the way she was in Sanskrit.
Keith: All right.
Pratibha: And so, when actually my father passed away, she used that and taught people, that's how she earned a living. She was also invited to speak, you know, and the honoraria that she got or the tuition that she got. That's how she raised us.
Keith: All right. So let me just think about that for a moment because the Holy Scriptures for you or for your faith is in Sanskrit.
Pratibha: Correct.
Keith: How many people read it? If no one speaks it? Is this? Were you need the intervention of a priest?
Pratibha: Correct?
Keith: I've always a bit suspect of that.
Pratibha: Yes, and the priests have kept it that way.
Keith: Of course, they do. Right.
Pratibha: And, you know, in many of the sects in Hinduism, the girls weren't allowed to learn at that time, and it was all controlled by the men.
Keith: Yes.
Pratibha: And especially the priests, yes. So that's how we got here.
Keith: Is it changing at all?
Pratibha: It's changing, but Sanskrit is still not the language that people learn to speak, but they do learn their prayers in Sanskrit.
Keith: For example, if your mother was an expert in Sanskrit poetry, for example, but she also had the capacity to talk to people about your Holy Scriptures.
Pratibha: Right.
Keith: And maybe read into the language or the words a slightly different sentiment than some of the male priests.
Pratibha: Oh, definitely. But we belong to a sect that treated men and women equally. It's called Arya Samaj. That's my background. We don't believe in idol worship. We believe in Idol.
Keith: Idol.
Pratibha: Correct. IDOL. Did I say ideal?
Keith: No, no, I. IDOL It could be IDLE. I just wanted to make it clear.
Pratibha: It's worshipping statues. Yes, and in the temples and such. Our temples are really an empty room where people gather and talk about the ideas.
Keith: Right.
Pratibha: And some of the ideas are the equality for women. So that's my mother's background. Both my parents. And so, that sort of filtered.
Keith: Well, at least that had a big impact upon you.
Pratibha: It did.
Keith: I mean, your mother getting this one-way ticket, right? I think that's tremendous.
Pratibha: And then I didn't see her after I left. So, she passed away before I went back.
Keith: Oh, gosh, that's actually very sad.
Pratibha: So that was yes. But her presence is there even today.
Keith: Yes.
Pratibha: And that's what helped me keep going and keep working at what I wanted to do.
Keith: So, you came to North America like so many of us, right? And got a high degree and then went back to teach and become a professor. So, tell us a little bit. Why is it concept of STEM education? Why is it important?
Pratibha: Stem education is important because how we teach, STEM education has always been important, and it's always been offered, and people have exceled in it. What has happened is that not all groups have equal opportunity to learn STEM. Typically, it was the white male who learned physics, chemistry,
Keith: By the white Anglo Saxon just like the Sanskrit. Right. Priests.
Pratibha: And up until even in the 40s, women weren't even hired in departments. Well, now, women are getting more positions and are going to school more and learning STEM fields, but we still have many populations, especially the low income and the minority populations that are not doing well in STEM, and we're losing them at proportions that are much higher than their population. So much more than what they represent in our population. The reason and there's plenty of research that says that cooperative learning is good for minority populations, men and women, and for low-income students who are first generation college students. Teaching in ways that are different from what we've always been doing.
Keith: Yes. I think you need to explain to the audience and to a certain extent to myself, cooperative learning. What is this as opposed to just learning?
Pratibha: Right. Learning is constructed in a social environment; good students do that. Even male students actually have a group that they work with. Often, what happens is when minority students come to our institutions, they don't naturally come together or others don't always include them, so they don't have the benefit of social learning. Learning is a social activity. Think of scientists as sitting in a corner and learning or doing things in the lab, but it's a very social activity. And so, if we don't create that social structure for the students to learn in, some of the students get left out because they don't always because they're minority, because they're low income, they don't always get included.
Keith: Because there’s not a tradition of a science in their family and in their friends in there.
Pratibha: Correct. So, they don't always know how to study science. Professors, on the other hand, who were always taught by someone lecturing to them, always assume that if I learned that way, why can't these other students learn that way. The thing that is missed is that it's only a small population that succeeded in that environment. That's the population now that is teaching and says, well, why can't they learn the way I learned? But if we want to broaden the pool of students at come in, then we're going to have to make it more friendly, make it less intimidating, give them more opportunities to work together and learn from each other.
Keith: We'll discuss this in some detail.
Pratibha: Okay
Keith: You’re listening to Science Studio. My name is Keith Panel, and I'm here today with Professor Pratibha Varma-Nelson from the STEM Education Innovation and Research Institute at the wonderfully named Indiana University Hyphen Purdue University in Indianapolis. So, we're going to take a short break and we'll be back.
Keith: Welcome back to Science Studio. This is Keith Panel, talking with Professor Pratibha Varma-Nelson. She's from the STEM Education Innovation and Research Institute at Indiana University, Hyphen and Purdue University in Indianapolis. Now, you said a few things there, which, in a sense, Pratibha quite provocative, I could say.
Pratibha: I hope so.
Keith: Well, that's good. Because it's almost like you're trying to say that we've got to make education in STEM, science, technology, engineering, and math, more user friendly, if I could sum it all up.
Pratibha: Absolutely.
Keith: And yet, you go to countries like Japan and China, many others, I'm sure, where that's anathema. They say, well, what are you talking about? User friendly? Just let them get in there and study it hard and come out the other end. Is it just an American idea to make it user friendly?
Pratibha: Actually, many years ago, so I think in the 80s, Erie Treisman at Berkeley, noticed that his African American students weren't doing so well in calculus and the Asian students there were doing very well. But when he compared their entrance exams and their grades, they were comparable. He couldn't understand why some students were doing well and the others weren't doing well. He actually went and observed them in their dorms. What he found was that the Asian students that you just mentioned were actually all working together. They were cooking together; they were socializing together, and they were teaching each other, and they were sharing the exams. They were sharing the notes. Whereas the African American student who was working just as hard and as many hours as the others were putting in but was working alone. He realized that that was the benefit of working together and sharing and teaching each other was not available to this student who was working alone.
Keith: This is what is called cooperative learning collaborative.
Pratibha: Or collaborative work together.
Keith: Now, if I think back to and I've been to India several times to different universities, you say the same thing happens there because I see the tremendous pressure on high school students in India to get to the right university and then it study study study. Seems to me I thought they were studying at home a lot by themselves.
Pratibha: They're studying at home; they're being tutored because not all the schools are teaching them as well as they should. The parents spend a lot of time and a lot of money getting them special tutoring outside. I understand it's the same in South Korea where the parents spend a lot of time and money, getting them tutoring.
Keith: Just recently did a science studio with a professor from Korea, who said that he just thinks back, you know, to his high school years, and it was just a slog.
Pratibha: Right.
Keith: But the point being there that he got admission into the National Soul University, and then the pressure was off. Because once he'd reached that level, you know, he'd go to get a job, no matter how he performed in the university. Anyway, sorry, it's an interjection. So, tell us then what your focus is with this collaborative.
Pratibha: I have one more point about India. It's such a big population that they're not trying to educate everyone. It's just a small percentage at the top that are getting all of these resources, and they also study in groups. They also get tutoring. They do all of those things, but 95% of the population is not getting there. In America, we're trying to get educate everyone. That's a different goal than educating the top 10%.
Keith: I mean, that's absolutely important point to make.
Pratibha: And so, I've spent since 95, spent a lot of time developing a pedagogy with a group of other colleagues, where we get the students to work together in a workshop. We call it a workshop. We break the students down into groups of six to eight students, and they are matched with the peer leader, and the peer leader guides them in problem solving.
Keith: And a peer leader would be a student but maybe one or two years ahead.
Pratibha: Could be a year ahead because they would have taken the course and been successful and done well. That's not enough for a student to be a peer leader is to get a high grade, but they also need to be service oriented. They need to be interested in helping their peers learn. That's the main characteristic that I look for in a peer leader. The students, this is a compliment to the lecture. The students have already attended the lecture and then they spend 2 hours in a workshop. There are recitations in science labs in science courses, and that is what we replaced is again, a TA standing up there and solving problems. Students don't learn how to solve problems if they don't solve problems on their own. So, these workshops are really problem-solving sessions, and the peer leader guides the students into solving problems.
Keith: And they're solving it as a group. I mean, they're interacting with each other.
Pratibha: Right.
Keith: I mean, one of the good things about peer leading or peer led team learning or what it called?
Pratibha: That's correct.
Keith: Peer led team learning. In fact, one of the good things about peer led team learning is the leader. The peer leaders just really develop into excellent teachers later on in life.
Pratibha: Correct.
Keith: And if they go into research careers, they become very good professors.
Pratibha: That's right. And to a certain extent, what's happening in these groups is they've got problems, and the problems are created by the professor. The professor is at no point off the hook. The professor needs to create the problems based on what they've learned that week, and it's no different than what happens in our lab group meetings, in our research group meetings. You get together and you talk about what you've learned, what you don't understand, what you understand, where you need to go. And so, the peer leader is trained to help students reflect on the material they've got and how they can proceed and solve problems and come to an answer, that is the most defensible. And so, for that reason, we don't put out answer keys to the problems that they work on in the workshops. Okay. And so, a set of problems is called a workshop unit. And so, this is what the students do in a P LTL workshop. And this has been now it was funded by the National Science Foundation to develop in chemistry.
Keith: Then other subjects, too, I suppose.
Pratibha: Well, after that, after they saw what happened in chemistry, then they gave us our project National dissemination grants, and we got two of those to disseminate it more broadly and two other disciplines.
Keith: In a sense, there's no replacement of a faculty I'll call it a lecture.
Pratibha: Correct.
Keith: Because that's what I think of it as.
Pratibha: Right.
Keith: So, if you've got a three-hour course, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and an hour a day, then this extra workshop is on top of that.
Pratibha: Correct.
Keith: Students are expected now to find an extra 2 hours each. But the results obviously must bear this out.
Pratibha: They do. Yes. So, if you didn't have a workshop, and then you put in a workshop in your course. The difference is about 15%,15 to 20% extra retention. So, you decrease in DWF grades. Now, I do have to say that you said they have to find two extra hours, but what I'm saying is we're replacing the recitation.
Keith: That if there was one.
Pratibha: If there was one.
Keith: Yes.
Pratibha: Right.
Keith: And that’s not always the case.
Pratibha: Correct. If there wasn't one, then then you are adding.
Keith: Do they get an extra hour’s credit for example?
Pratibha: Not always. Not always. You can think of this as a specialized homework session or a structured study group.
Keith: The reason that you have a student as the peer leader is because it's a small group and there's just aren't enough faculty to go around to handle six at a time.
Pratibha: So that's the minor reason. The major reason is that the student is the peer leader is a recent learner of the material. Remember all the issues they had learning a concept. If it's stereochemistry, for example, the peer leader knows what he or she went through to understand what a chiral carbon is. What does make carbon chiral? Whereas a faculty member looks at a carbon and knows it's chiral. They're not thinking of all the things you have to think about before you can decide a carbon is spiral. This is the reason is one of the reasons that the peer leader is a recent learner and remembers the issues.
Keith: That's a key feature.
Pratibha: That's one of the key features. But he or she is also a peer. We're talking about a social role model. This is just a slightly advanced peer, and the faculty members selected this student. We want the students to see this is a successful student. It's a social and an intellectual role model that we're introducing in the classroom.
Keith: The results that are coming in from around the country because lots of people are adopting this as a modus operandi.
Pratibha: Correct.
Keith: Is there any question that it's a total success for African Americans, for Hispanics, for women, for men, whether it's mixed groups or mixed groups. Caveats.
Pratibha: We have seen success across all different populations. We've segregated the data and looked at it and we see if it's done well, if it's done right, that all groups benefit. Now, my most recent work is in putting these groups in virtual environments. So, my research right now, which was funded by the Bill Gates Foundation.
Keith: The iPhone.
Pratibha: Well, it's in the web conferencing environment, typically.
Keith: Right.
Pratibha: And so, we've got students learning synchronously. It's almost exactly the same thing except they're meeting from home, and they could be sitting in their pajamas and doing PLTL the data there is quite interesting. I actually thought that the students would be distracted if they were working online from home. Data shows us that they're actually more on task than the students who are working in the face-to-face environment.
Keith: So, you've got to find out why that is, I suppose, page.
Pratibha: Well, the peer leader can see every single one of them very closely as if they're sitting right there.
Keith: But they can't see each other.
Pratibha: And they can't see each other. And the peer leader is sitting at home too, and they can make anyone's work visible to all the entire group. And that in itself has been an enough deterrent. However, I think they don't form a good community. They don't form a strong community. So even though they're working together, they're more on task, we find they don't always cooperate in the following classes. Whereas our face-to-face students cooperate even in the other classes? It's an experiment.
Keith: Has there been much of a negative I mean, it's an innovation for older faculty like me that really believes all I've got to do is get up there and talk and ask questions of class, that's enough. Clearly, I'm incorrect in that and I've changed a little. Is there big feedback that says now more or less everybody agrees that this is the way to go?
Pratibha: Well, not really. We still get pushed back from some faculty that this isn't universally accepted. Yeah. It's successful, but there are faculty who say it's too much work.
Keith: And just one final question, is it going to be applicable to every subject there is?
Pratibha: It is all of the stem courses. I've recently seen it in English, actually in England, who are teaching students English those students whose language is not English. They're teaching them in PLD groups on how to speak English.
Keith: Pratibha Varma-Nelson. It's been absolutely delightful that half an hour flew by. Starting with Sanskrit and priests and professors who are priests and so on and so forth. And this Peer led team learning is here to stay, and I congratulate you on being on the forefront of this. We've been talking to Pratibha Varma-Nelson, who is the executive director of the STEM Education Innovation and Research Institute at Indiana University, Hyphen Purdue University at Indianapolis. I'd like to thank Dennis Wu for putting this program together, and if it sounds good, it's all due to him. This is Keith Pannell, saying, I hope you come back next week, and we'll have another science studio program. Take care. Bye bye.